Pride That Precedes A Great Fall

Pride.Homosexuality

He was the lead story on the national news.  When Jay Leno opened his monologue Monday evening and said his name, the audience applauded their approval.  Tuesday’s Today Show opened with his story.  His colleagues have called him “courageous.”  A Washington Post Reporter called him “brave.” Congressman Joseph Kennedy III said, “I’m so proud of him.”  He received calls of congratulations and commendation from past President Clinton, and President Obama.  Even his former fiancé said she was supportive and happy for him.

So who is he?  And what did do that is so wonderful? 

He is Jason Collins.  A 34 year-old reserve center for the NBA Washington Wizards.  And he announced to the world on Monday that he is a homosexual.

Hours after Colin’s story appeared on ESPN and various web outlets, he posted on Twitter: ”All the support I have received today is truly inspirational. I knew that I was choosing the road less traveled but I’m not walking it alone.”

NBA Commissioner, David Stern, issued this statement, ”Jason has been a widely respected player and teammate throughout his career and we are proud he has assumed the leadership mantle on this very important issue.”

Everyone from athletes to sport commentators to politicians were supporting and praising Collins. In fact, at the end of President Obama’s press conference on Tuesday, one the Reporters shouted, “Jason Collins!   Do you want to say anything about him?”

At that point Obama turned back to the lectern and used the Presidential “bully pulpit” to praise Collins as “a terrific young man.”  He said, “I told him that I couldn’t be prouder of him.”  He continued by talking about the progress of lesbians, homosexual and transgendered  people.  How they deserve more than tolerance, but acceptance.  He called Jason Collins “a role model” to young people today.  And then reminded us not to judge people on the basis of their sexual orientation.

Are we slouching toward Sodom and Gomorrah, or what?  I still find it difficult to comprehend the nonsense spouted off by learned, enlightened and otherwise rational people.  My grandparents who have been deceased for many years wouldn’t believe what is happening to the moral fabric and fiber of our country.

In just the past forty years we have moved from a moral standard that everyone accepted, to an anything goes no matter how twisted or bizarre. When I was a kid everyone knew the homosexuality was wrong.  Now we not only tolerate it.  We are proud of people for admitting it!  And hailing them as heroes and role models!  Unbelievable!

One person with the courage to speak the truth was ESPN analyst Chris Broussard on the show “Outside the Lines.” Regarding Jason Collin’s announcement he said,  “I’m a Christian. I don’t agree with homosexuality. I think it’s a sin, as I think all sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman is…. If you’re openly living in unrepentant sin, whatever it may be … that’s walking in open rebellion to God and to Jesus Christ.”

Predictably left-wing bloggers and homosexual activists slammed Brossard for his “extreme views.”  One blogger complained, that it was “unclear why (Mr. Broussard’s opinion) was necessary or even relevant.”  Quickly ESPN apologized for Brossard’s commentary.   This about this.  People are proud of Collins.  But peeved at Broussard!

Yet, less we get overly discouraged, our day is simply a repeat of by gone eras.  This sin was pervasive in Sodom, Greece and Rome.

The prophet Isaiah lamented and warned in 800 BC.  “Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;  Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, And prudent in their own sight! (Isa 5:20-21).

Right now while everyone from the Wizard’s point guard to President Obama is expressing how proud they are of Jason Collins, let me remind you of some words from Scripture:

“The Pride of your heart has deceived you…Prides goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.”

Ken Weliever, The Preacherman

36 Comments

Filed under America, Culture, Morality, Sin

36 responses to “Pride That Precedes A Great Fall

  1. Thank you Ken. Moya and I have been telling our young Christian friends how far things have gone. I am afraid this is all they have known and they may begin to do as our President think is right…not tolerance but acceptance. You are absolutely right that other cultures have gone this far and we are not the first to face this. I used to say Christians will be persecuted again and I don’t think we are far from that today.

  2. Jauhyn

    Thank you, Ken. I agree with Byron, we are not far from persecution. We must live as Christ did not running from sin but confronting it.

  3. Pamela Riddick, Lilac Rd. Church of Christ, Leitchfield, KY

    Amen, Brother Ken. Yes, we are slouching toward Sodom and Gomorrha as a nation.

  4. Sandra Jo, Pine Bluff Church of Christ

    After I put on the news yesterday morning, I was upset all day how the media was promoting this sin because, as a Christian, I know the consequences not only eternally but what God will do to this country. Sports are a passion in this U.S., and players are heroes that the youth especially look up to. This open door will allow many more young adults to experiment and choose to be perverted in their sexual behavior. The real hero in your article is Chris Broussard. I’m still feeling sick over this!

  5. Janice Cielo

    A friend of mine recently quoted the verse you mentioned, “Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil…..” When I read that, I realized that before I had always thought how can this be, how could someone possibly interpret good for evil?” When she wrote it on FB the other day, it was like a light came on and it became so clear to me, and I just shuttered to think how this has been happening for the last few years, and it’s becoming so pervasive. How true this scripture has become.

  6. Richard Williams, Pine Bluff, AR

    I am fearful American society has embraced the “dark side” of morality in an effort to be “tolerant,” “fair-minded,” and “inclusive.” By proclaiming homosexuality and same-sex marriage as “normal” and “legitimate” the supporters of this perversion must not only reject God’s revelation on these matters but they must also condemn those who hold to biblical morality as “intolerant,” “prejudicial,” and “exclusive.”

    It is ironic that to embrace sin by proclaiming oneself “tolerant” one must condemn those who embrace morality as “intolerant.”

    The unintended consequences of this “new morality” championed by our President, the news media, the entertainment and publication industries, and even many churches (!) are just beginning to be felt and will escalate to unimaginable proportions within our society in a few years.

    I would not be surprised if within the decade group marriage is declared legal. In fact, why not inter-species marriage? Perhaps marriage itself will be eliminated as “unnecessary and archaic.” Homosexuals will become more and more influential in politics and in passing “liberal” and “social and sexual equality” legislation, sexual filth and perversion will become even more prolific in the entertainment industry and presented as acceptable behavior, and Christians who oppose this sinful mindset will be persecuted by the government as “anti-social” and as “intolerant bigots.”

    We already see this trend coming with the negative reaction of Chris Broussard who was expressing his considered belief on the subject of homosexuality and concluded by saying, “I’m a Christian. I don’t agree with homosexuality. I think it’s a sin, as I think all sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman is…. If you’re openly living in unrepentant sin, whatever it may be … that’s walking in open rebellion to God and to Jesus Christ.” Good for you, Chris!

    But ESPN, rather than supporting Broussard’s right to express his opinion, apologized for his comments! I would not be surprised if Broussard is fired from his analyst position at ESPN. Certainly, he will be marginalized at best.

    Yes, we’ve come a looooooong way, baby!

    • tommythornhill

      As I read your artilce my thoughts went to Jer, 6 which seems to describe America today, even though I am sure Jeremiah didn’t have America in his mind. But as Solomon tells us in Eccl. There is nothing new under the sun and each generation repeats the sins of the past generation. The future generations will do the same. God bless.

  7. Billie

    I am so afraid of what we are leaving our children and grandchildren as a nation. We need to be even more vigilant of what is going on in this world so we can guard against sin and implant this information to all we know. I will add this thought to my daily prayers to make sure that our children and those to come, are well equipped to battle the sins of todays world.

  8. Valerie

    God help and protect us from the wickedness about us. Our task is to fortify our faith with the Truth, and stand firm for Christ’s sacrifice, that cleanses such sinfulness. I would like to say God bless America, but I don’t believe it would be proper, to request a blessing for a nation so given over to all sorts of evil. God bless His children, and help prepare us for the torrent before us.

  9. Michael

    Hello. I’m a Christian who was saved from an early age. My mom led me to the Lord by explaining why Christ died for my sins. I accepted him into my heart that day and have never been the same since.

    For many years, I used to make fun of homosexuality and commented regularly about how evil and wrong it was. I even went as far as to occasionally pick on some of my fellow students who I thought was gay because of their effeminate behavior.

    Later on in high school, however, I began to eat my own words. Secretly, I was struggling with feelings and desires for older, masculine men. I didn’t understand why I was struggling with these desires. I also didn’t understand why I never had desires for women all my life. I had heard that many boys had sexual desires for girls as early as 10 years old. However, I never had desires for women. Instead, I noticed that when a girl seemed to like me, I would push her away.

    I was scared of women, for some reason. I never thought about them sexually, and it always felt wrong when I tried. I never “chose” to like men, which frustrated me the most. I have tried to make myself like women, but deep down inside I know that I would never want to be with a woman.

    For years now, I have hidden these sexual desires from the world, and simply pray about them to God. I have asked God many times why I am not like other men. Why do I have these feelings? Why doesn’t he change me? I suppose Jesus’ grace is sufficient for me. This is what Jesus told Paul when Paul begged him to take away his “thorn in the flesh.”

    Currently, I am single, and I plan on staying single. I refuse to get married and lie to my spouse, and “pretend” to love her intimately. Too many men have done this, and lied to their wives. Many men, who have even had children, have ended up later getting a divorce to be with a man. Do I want to be included in that statistic? No.

    In my opinion, it is unfair that people like me are born with these feelings. I am forced to control them… and to never have sex. I am forced to sit back and watch as happily married straight couples love one another, start a family, and seem to enjoy life to the fullest. None of you will ever understand how I feel, or the pain and guilt I have to go through on a daily basis. None of you will understand the hatred I have for my own flesh. I feel like an abomination, and at times, I don’t even feel like I’m a Christian. I don’t even feel like I fully belong to my local church (who knows nothing about my struggle).

    You want to know why I don’t go to my pastor or other church members for help? It’s because they have publicly stated that they are disgusted with homosexuality and hate it. If I was to tell them, I’d never be treated the same, and everyone would be afraid of me.

    I can assure everyone here that I am no “Sodomite.” I haven’t had sex with anyone–not even with a woman. I am a virgin, and someone who loves the Lord dearly. I can also assure you that the men of Sodom were not all homosexuals. If they were, there would be no wives and children. Rather, the men of Sodom were like the men in our prisons–which rape each other for sexual pleasure.

    THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED IN SODOM AND GOMMORRAH. THEY RAPED NEWCOMERS! THEY DIDN’T ASK THE ANGELS OUT ON A DATE, THEY DIDN’T TELL THE ANGELS THAT THEY LOVED THEM, THEY SIMIPLY WANTED TO RAPE THEM. THAT IS THE REAL SIN OF SODOM. MOSES WOULD NEVER OF COMMANDED THE ISREALITES TO NOT SLEEP WITH ANOTHER MAN IF THE EVENT AT SODOM AND GOMORRAH NEVER HAPPENED.

    I don’t hate any of my Christian brothers and sisters. I really don’t. I just get so frustrated, because they have NO clue what people like me have to go through. They simply paint every homosexual with the same brush, and think that we are all evil. Every time I hear my church rant and rave against Homosexuality, it is as if they are all tearing me to pieces with sharp knives and teeth. There is no mercy in the church today for people like me who love the Lord, and who are struggling with these feelings.

    God bless. I think I have said everything I wanted to say…

    • Jonathan

      Michael, so many of my friends were raised in church when they were younger only to realize that they, too, were born gay. It’s okay. They are, in fact, living life to the fullest now and many of them still love God. Go surround yourself with Believers who aren’t bigots. Don’t subject yourself to sitting through worthless sermons condemning you. You’re right. They don’t know your struggle or anything about it. It’s easy for them to tell you, “oh that’s fine, just don’t act on it….ever in your whole life.” Name any other sin in these churches where that’s even possible. That asinine statement just shows how little they know about basic human behavior 101…or the nature of “sin”….or their own secret sins. Be definition, if one struggles with something, they’re are going to do it. Furthermore, they don’t kick anyone out for rampant gossiping, for example. Or watching porn. Which most everyone does and would believe are sins. They hardly even ask forgiveness for it. You are living in the ultimate double standard situation with these people. Your sin is a top 5 sin, up there with drinking, sex before marriage, dancing, and drugs. They treat it differently. You know it, I know it, and everyone on this blog knows it. They give verbal service and say that it’s just like every other sin but that’s not what’s practiced and your experience is living proof. And sadly, it’s common. I love my gay friends. They are some of the most wonderful human beings on the face of this earth. Seek and find positive, loving people that see the world the way you do and live your life. There will always be someone with a small life who will look at yours and disapprove. There’s a whole new world out there for you and I hope you find it! Much love.

      • Nathan

        Romans 12:1-2, “I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.”

        1 John 5:19, “the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.”

        1 John 2:16-17, “For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world. And the world along with it’s desires are passing away, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.”

        Titus 2:11-15, “For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works. Declare these things; exhort and rebuke with all authority. Let no one disregard you.”

        James 4:4, ” Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.”

        Romans 1:18-32, “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.”

        Jesus said, “My Kingdom is not of this world.” – John 18:36

        And, “it (the world) hates me because I testify about it that its works are evil.”

        Therefore, “Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.” – John 12:25

        “And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.” – John 3:19

        The Word of God! Just spreading the seed and hoping it falls on good soil. No need to add anything.

  10. julie davidson

    “Michael”: i believe that, even though you feel the way you do, as long as you DO NOT ACT UPON your desires, & in your heart, do your best, each day, (as we ALL should), to be CHRIST-like Christians…it will be worth the inferior feelings to continue doing as you say you are! also, if you were to talk to a fellow Christian, honestly, if it be your minister, a fellow brother or sister, you would not be judged! 🙂 i will keep you in my prayers…in His love, Julie

  11. Michael

    Thanks for your kind reply, Julie.

    Sorry for my long post, earlier. I was having a bad day and kind of took it out on here.

    As a nation, we have become morally corrupt, with fewer and fewer people who truly fear the Lord. I do not support pride parades, and the bad image that many gay people project.

    God bless each of you, an have a good evening.

  12. Nathan

    So going back to the previous post, “What” are we going to do about it as Christians? I certainly hope that we show the love of Christ to those who struggle with this sin (any sin for that matter) and can effectively shed light on the condition of their souls. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 comes to mind. The “what” should be to move souls from verses 9 and 10 and into verse 11. Love is the means by which we can make it happen, not judgment and condemnation.

  13. Jonathan

    So much ignorance on this blog I don’t even have the words. And you all are too cowardly to address anything I say on here. Or not intelligent enough. Sodom and Gomorrah weren’t destroyed because of homosexuality. Read your Bible instead of regurgitating the cud that came out of your grandparent’s mouths. And who is arrogant enough to make such a statement, “In just the past forty years we have moved from a moral standard that everyone accepted, to an anything goes no matter how twisted or bizarre.” What was that moral standard? Racism? The subjugation of women? Do you even know “everyone” to adequately have a grasp on what they all accepted? It’s really laughable.

    “When I was a kid everyone knew the homosexuality was wrong.” When you were a kid everyone probably said we couldn’t go to the moon either. I’m so glad that the universal truth of society should be held now to the standard of what was accepted during your childhood. Now all of the world’s problems can be solved. Let’s just go back to one person’s childhood memories and make that the standard. Awesome.

    • Well, well, Jonathan, it seems you did find some words after your first sentence! I do appreciate you reading my blog. Let me see if I can answer your questions/concerns. First of all Genesis 19 speaks of the men of Sodom seeking to have sex with Lot’s male visitors. Now, I know some claim that the sin was not in homosexual relations, but rape. I don’t think the text supports that theory, and neither does the rest of scripture. Lot offers his daughters instead of these men engaging in this wickedness. Secondly the Law of Moses, specifically condemns same-sex relations. Lev 18:22-23 says, “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. ‘Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal to be defiled with it, nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion.” In fact, it was a capital crime! Lev 20:13 reads, “If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death.” Thirdly, the New Testament not only condemns homosexuality but speaks of it as being a perversion. When Paul recounted the Gentiles’ rejection of God, he described it in these words 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator — who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed withlust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. (Romans 1:24-27) Sexual impurity. Degrading. Shameful. Unnatural. Indecent. Perversion. I think these words pretty much describe homosexual relations. Fourthly, my grandparents never openly spoke of this when I was a kid. In fact, neither did my parents. This sin was considered so disgusting and shameful that it was never discussed around children. So, my knowledge comes from the Bible, not my family. Fifthly, the moral standard that has been accepted for about 5,000 years of recorded history has been the Judeo-Christian ethic of marriage being between one man and one woman. 40-50 years ago society generally accepted that as a proper moral standard. It was reflected in our laws. Our schools. Our homes. Even our TV shows!  (BTW, I remember as a kid the “space race” with the Russians in getting to the moon!  We were all pretty excited about it)   Sixth, the Bible and Christianity does NOT advocate racism or the subjugation of women. In fact, in Christ all are elevated to a higher status, an equality in Christ. The Bible says, “For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (Gal. 3:26-27). While there were social inequities then, as there were in the 1950’s, the gospel does not discriminate. All enjoy the same spiritual blessings in Jesus. Finally, Jonathan, all the world’s problems could be solved if everyone followed the teaching of the Bible. Think about it! There would be no murder. No stealing. No cheating. No lying. No child-abuse. No battered women. No unfaithfulness in marriage. No broken homes. No children without a father. No sexual diseases caused by promiscuous behavior. People would treat others they way they want to be treated. Love, peace and joy would abound. Selfish ambition would be replaced by humility. Vitriolic language and pejorative epithets would give way to kind words, and encouraging, uplifting speech. Vulgarity would disappear, and civility would abound. Law breakers would become law abiding citizens! Jails would be emptied. Prisons turned into shelters. Lazy and slothful people would become productive workers. Society would prosper! And that, my friend, would be Awesome!   Ahh, I know this will not happen. Because there will always be those with evil hearts who desire to engage in wickedness. But to the extent we can lessen the sin in this world, the better off society will be. And those who live righteous lives will be happier on this earth, and definitely so in eternity. Jonathan, I hope I have shared some enlightenment that will give you something to seriously consider. Again, thanks for reading and taking the time to comment         

      Ken Weliever 400 NW Highcliffe Dr Lee’s Summit, MO 64081 Home Phone: 816-600-5001 Cell Phone: 813-507-1726 Church Office: 816-761-2659 preacherman@weliever.net web site: http://www.weliever.net/ blog: http://www.thepreachersword.com/ Church web site:  http://hickmanchurch.com/

                  

      ________________________________

  14. Jonathan

    I couldn’t care less what you think the Bible says. Historically, Christians used the Bible to justify racism. They used the Bible to not allow women to vote. Or speak in church. Or lead a song in church. They use the Bible to start wars. They use the Bible to be bigots. They use the Bible to cut people off from their lives. Whole entire books have been written about the problems that Christianity has brought to this earth. So don’t talk to me how all the worlds issues would be solved by the Bible. Bible believers aren’t a shining example of how to be happy in this life. Most are miserable, hate their lives secretly, and aren’t free in any sense of the word.

    You can take all the OT verses you want to, string them together and twist them into meaning whatever you want them to. Do you still think it’s sinful to have sex with a woman while on her period? Cus that was outlawed in the OT too. What about your slaves situation? God approved of worship with instrumental music in the OT, but I guess you probably don’t practice that either. So really you just pick and choose what you want to in order to make the point that lines up the most with your presupposed idea that’s affirmed by all the people you surround yourself with. Furthermore, I love how Lot was saved even though he was willing to offer his daughter to be gang raped. Sounds like the standard I sure would love to apply to my life. Great example in Scripture of how to live. Allow your daughter to be ravaged by strangers, but as long as you’re not gay, you’re good. And comparing a loving homosexual relationship between 2 people and homosexuals who want to rape another man (Sodom) is not a comparison. Also, it was widely considered at the time that sex with a deity gave one powers so this more accurately would represent why they wanted this…not illicit homosexual desires. Your logic breaks down on almost every single level.

    Additionally, your statement that one man/one woman has been the only accepted standard for 5,000 years is simply not true. Do you even read your own Bible? There were 8 forms of marriage in the Bible:
    1) Women being bought and sold by husbands and fathers as if they were property
    2) polygamy-probably the most common we see in the Bible
    3) the Levirate marriage – bro in law must marry and impregnate
    4) a man a woman and his concubines
    5) male soldier and female prisoner of war -Deut 21
    6) A male rapist and his victim – Deut 22
    7) female slaves having to marry male slaves w/o consent
    8) monogamous, heterosexual.
    (What you might think of as the standard form of marriage, provided you think of arranged marriages as the standard.)

    Also remember that inter-faith or cross-ethnic marriage were forbidden for large chunks of biblical history. Do you support this still? The important thing to realize here is that none of these models are described as better than any other. All appear to have been accepted. So I’d like to ask you which of the eight kinds you would prefer, and why. You’re either not being honest or you’re very used to people just accepting what you say as truth because you’re a preacher.

    Historically, Christians are the perpetrators of some of the worst acts of human behavior. I submit to you that most of the worlds problems have come about because of religion Your blog is an example of this. Because you think that being gay is wrong, you and your followers on here try to subjugate those people’s American civil liberties. You think that you are saved and no one else is. You judge people who aren’t like you. You write about them and call them prideful. And haughty. Because you have all the answers to life. Because you’ve studied one book your entire life and think very, very highly of your interpretation of it. That makes you a duplicitous person who loves his own rights but doesn’t want anyone else to have theirs. Gay people aren’t hurting you or this country. People like you and the followers of this blog are.

    • Well, Jonathan, there are answers to all of your points. But if you don’t care what the Bible says, then I guess this discussion is over. We will just have to agree to disagree! But I will tell you the people that I know who are Christians are not bigots or racists. And they are quite happy with their lives!

      Ken Weliever 400 NW Highcliffe Dr Lee’s Summit, MO 64081 Home Phone: 816-600-5001 Cell Phone: 813-507-1726 Church Office: 816-761-2659 preacherman@weliever.net web site: http://www.weliever.net/ blog: http://www.thepreachersword.com/ Church web site: http://hickmanchurch.com/

      ________________________________

      • Jonathan

        If you read what I said, I said that I don’t care what *you think* the Bible says.

        And I’m calling you a bigot, not your friends. Based on your writings. You are intolerantly devoted to your own opinions and prejudices and you treat others with intolerance based on those views. What’s worse is that you assign your own opinions and equate them to being the same as God’s. But it’s gay people who are proud and haughty. Not you.

    • Michael

      Thanks, Jonathan, for showing me true Christian love (instead of fear; true love casts out fear) and for defending me.

      God bless you, brother.

  15. Michael

    Ken, I am interested in what you think of my situation. I was hoping for some advice, but all I’m seeing is the same thing I hear preachers preach all the time: Homosexuality is a sin, and I don’t need to live that way. Instead, I should force myself to marry a woman and TRY to love her (lying to her, which would ultimately end in divorce, as many of these fake marriages do).

    I’m sorry, but it’s very difficult to go through life fighting against your own humanity. I’ve prayed to God many times to deliver me, and He hasn’t. The fact that God, the creator of the universe, who is all powerful, yet refuses to deliver me from this sin (doesn’t my request make God happy?), makes me wonder if His answer is “I want you to be this way.” I believe it is.

    And Nathan, as far as the verses you quoted me, I’ve read them all before. However, they do nothing to change my situation. Even though at one time I used to fully believe those verses, and hated myself because of those verses, and asked God to change me because of those verses, they were powerless to change me. It did nothing but deepen my guilt and make me contemplate suicide. Instead of bringing hope to my situation, it gave power to satan to accuse me (his name does mean “accuser” after all).

    Also, Nathan, your verses mention not being “friends with the world.” I hate to break it to you, but the “world” gets married. Do you think that we will get married in heaven? NO. WE WILL BE LIKE THE ANGELS, WHO DO NOT MARRY. THEREFORE, MARRIAGE IS A WORLDY (FLESHLY) INSTUTION THAT WE WON’T SEE IN HEAVEN. Thus, if you want to stop being “friends with the world”, you should become like Paul, and not be married. He stayed single his whole life. Jesus also was single. And I am single.

    TO BE HONEST, SINCE I AM SINGLE AND A VIRGIN, I AM FOLLOWING GOD’S WORD MORE THAN MOST TRADITIONAL STRAIGHT CHRISTIANS. Paul even said it is better not to marry than to marry, so that one can be fully devoted to God instead of worldly matters.

    -Angry and Upset at his Brothers’ in Christ lack of love, Michael

    • Michael First of all, let me apologize for not answering your comments earlier. I always try topersonally respond to anycomments on my blog. Some ministry demands, however, and kept from any detailed answers lately. I really appreciate you reading. And being so transparent to share your struggles. I also commend you from abstaining from “fleshly lusts that war against your soul” (1 Pet. 2:11). The fact that you are a virgin and resisting Satan’s temptation to sin shows a great deal of strength. Courage. And resolve. I have seen a good bit here from those advocating homosexuality, that those who preach against it, somehow hate others. Or are intolerant. Of fail to show the love of Christ. While that may bewith case with some, I have not seen in in the attitudes of preachers with whom I associate. Although my writing has been misinterpreted by some, with various accusations, I have no animosity towards homosexuals, or any others who engage in sexual sins. I am simply seeking to preach and teach the Truth as revealed in the Bible. While your situation is personal and unique, it is not different in God’s eyes than those unmarried heterosexuals who may struggle with staying morally pure. Or a married man who struggles with being faithful to his wife. And in the cases wherepeople havegiven in to their sensual desires, YOU ARE BETTER OFF, Michael, because you are remaining pure. You asked for my advice, so here it is. 1. Continue to stay strong. Be pure. And remain a virgin. I know that is God’s will, because the apostle Paul says so! (1 Thess.4:3-6). Remember this any human opinions, feelings or urges that are contrary to the teaching of the New Testament for the Christian are not God’s will no matter how we feel, or what others may say! 2. Don’t get married to a female just to get married! You are right, that is not fair or right. Either to you or her. 3. Find a support group to help you follow God’s will. I don’t know you or where you live, but I’m hoping there is some support you can find. You are struggling, but wanting to do what is right, are there are people who will help you. 4. Finally, Michael, I would suggest you find a really good “Christian counselor” who is going to showlove and respect, but help you overcome your struggle with a Biblical solution. I am not really qualified to provide the kind of in-depth counseling that a person needs who deals with sexual struggles. I always try to refer people to those who can help. Here is a group I found that does phone and email counseling. http://www.dovechristiancounseling.com/Index.html However, it would be better if you found a Christian organization where you livethat could help. Here’s a link to the National Organization of Christians counselors where you can find someone to meet with that is going to help based on a Biblical value system. http://www.nanc.org/ Michael, I hope this provides some help and encouragement to you. Again, I encourage to you to stay strong. Pure. And resist the voices that appeal to your baser desires. God bless Ken

      Ken Weliever 400 NW Highcliffe Dr Lee’s Summit, MO 64081 Home Phone: 816-600-5001 Cell Phone: 813-507-1726 Church Office: 816-761-2659 preacherman@weliever.net web site: http://www.weliever.net/ blog: http://www.thepreachersword.com/ Church web site: http://hickmanchurch.com/

      ________________________________

      • Jonathan

        “Although my writing has been misinterpreted by some, with various accusations, I have no animosity towards homosexuals…”

        Let’s take a look at some of your writing…
        “America’s definition of marriage may change, but God’s does not. Christians unite. Stand firm. Be strong. Remain faithful. Don’t compromise. Don’t condone sin. Don’t yield to public pressure.
        God’s judgment is coming. Sooner or later.”

        “At that point Obama turned back to the lectern and used the Presidential “bully pulpit” to praise Collins as “a terrific young man.” He said, “I told him that I couldn’t be prouder of him.”

        “Are we slouching toward Sodom and Gomorrah, or what? I still find it difficult to comprehend the nonsense spouted off by learned, enlightened and otherwise rational people.”

        So according to your writing:
        1) homosexuals are the reason why we will incur God’s judgment as a nation
        2) people who support homosexuals use a “bully pulpit”
        3) people who support homosexuals spout nonsense and are irrational
        4) homosexuals and their supporters are to be united against (divisive “us against them” language)
        5) if we support homosexuals then we are slouching as a nation

        Yeah, I don’t see how anyone would think that you have animosity towards homosexuals at all.

      • Just telling the truth Jonathan.  Not hating sinner….only hating the sin

        Ken Weliever 400 NW Highcliffe Dr Lee’s Summit, MO 64081 Home Phone: 816-600-5001 Cell Phone: 813-507-1726 Church Office: 816-761-2659 preacherman@weliever.net web site: http://www.weliever.net/ blog: http://www.thepreachersword.com/ Church web site:  http://hickmanchurch.com/

                    

        ________________________________

      • Jonathan

        Let there be no room for doubt on this fact: Each and every one of the statements that you made that I quoted are your opinion. It’s not truth, it’s your conjecture.

      • Michael

        Thank you, Ken, for replying.

        My mission here isn’t to destroy your ministry, though it did seem like I was harsh in my words. I was just sharing what I am personally going through in my struggle with homosexuality. I’m still baffled, confused, and upset that I even have to go through this, and wish I could just be as normal as all my other brothers and sisters in Christ. Life would be much easier, then…. or at least, I think it would be easier. I know that we all go through some type of struggle in this life. Therefore, I guess I can’t really say my life would be any easier if I struggled with “straight” sexual desires, like everyone else does.

        However, one thing I do know is this: If I was “normal”, I would feel more at home at church, instead of feeling like the black sheep that my pastor and many other ministers are talking about when they come down hard on the sin of homosexuality.

        I’ve honestly never heard my pastor and church congregation speak out against general adultery and lust as much as they have against homosexuality… I almost get the feeling that I would be hated if I came clean with my church.

        So, why do pastors find it easier to attack homosexuality than they do adultery, which is even more rampant in the church than homosexuality? (At least, that’s the way I see it. I know that many Christian couples are very loyal and loving towards their spouse. But if you was to tally up the sexual sins, I’m sure adultery between married couples would outweigh homosexuality.)

        Currently, I still have more peace simply accepting the fact that I am attracted to men, instead of constantly rejecting it. This is because the more I fight against it, the more my sinful body seems to rebel. Even Paul, in Romans chapter 7, explained this phenomenon of the flesh. The more we try to obey God’s law with our mind, the more our flesh acts against us to cause us to fail. This is why it’s impossible for anyone to keep the entire law of God. Sin, which dwells in our flesh, stirs up wicked desires when we hear God’s laws. Thus, the law that says “You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination” makes me want to commit that sin all the more.

        I’ve started using “reverse psychology” on my own flesh. Believe it or not, when I tell myself that I’m gay, and that it isn’t a sin, I almost instantly lose my sexual desires and I find it harder to lust after men.

        Isn’t that weird? But it works. 🙂

      • That’s ok, Michael. I didn’t think you were being harsh. I felt like you were frustrated and being very honest. I think why we are hearing more preaching and writing against homosexual sins today thanheterosexual sins is because it is in the news so much and everyone seems so excited whenever some “comes out” But I do preach on all forms of sexual immorality.

        Ken Weliever 400 NW Highcliffe Dr Lee’s Summit, MO 64081 Home Phone: 816-600-5001 Cell Phone: 813-507-1726 Church Office: 816-761-2659 preacherman@weliever.net web site: http://www.weliever.net/ blog: http://www.thepreachersword.com/ Church web site: http://hickmanchurch.com/

        ________________________________

  16. Michael

    Passages by Paul that suggest being single (as I am) is better than marriage (as you are):

    ***************************************************************************************
    “Now for the matters you wrote about: ‘It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.’ ” – 1 Corinthians 7:1 NIV

    “I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.” – 1 Corinthians 7:7 NIV

    “Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do.” – 1 Corinthians 7:8 NIV

    “I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife—and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband.” – 1 Corinthians 7:32-34 NIV

    “So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does better” – 1 Corinthians 7:38 NIV
    ***************************************************************************************

    Passage by Jesus that suggests marriage is a worldly institution (even though created by God for flesh and blood beings) that will not be seen in heaven:

    ” At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.” – Matthew 22:30 NIV

    What do you make of those Scriptures, Nathan?

    -Michael, a Gay Christian brother.

    • Nathan

      Michael,

      I am actually single as well and not married. Paul placed much more value in things above than things beneath. I wouldn’t dare try to argue with the scriptures you reference. Marriage (between a man and a woman) was instituted by God in the world and while Paul said it would be better to remain unmarried to keep focus off of what is in the world, marriage is not a sin (1 Cor 7:36) and Paul never indicated marriage was wrong. In fact in one of the scriptures you referenced (1 Cor 7:38), Paul said marriage is “right”. Additionally, scriptural marriage can actually have spiritual benefits. Proverbs 18:22 says, “He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the Lord.” Marriage is honorable and to be honored according to Hebrews 13:4. Marriage is an approved way of fulfilling a natural desire (1 Cor 7:9). Homosexuality is an unapproved way of fulfilling an unnatural desire (Rom 1:26-27). Your Christian brethren would do you a dis-service if they just stood by and said anything other than what the scriptures are saying. I am thankful for those who have spoken up when I have been on the wrong path. It may have hurt at the time, but I know it was love that motivated them, and I know that I am better off now. If they would have just stood by and done/said nothing, who knows what spiritual condition I would be in. The love of Christ is not passive acceptance, it is an active influence towards righteousness that can be exhibited in a number of ways. One way is by standing up for the truth.

      • Jonathan

        Nathan: Open your eyes. Michael has said that your words don’t make him feel loved. And that the verses you quote at him make him hate himself and make him feel guilty. The “disservice” is from people like you, who only know how to handle people by slapping them with Scripture. You talk about the “love of Christ” as if you know how to administer that love, when you are being told by someone directly that they don’t feel it when they hear you speak/write. Your quip about what the love of Christ is, just demonstrates that you really don’t know anything about it. Christ was very passive in a lot situations, in fact. Read John 8. “Standing up for truth” is probably the most overrated idea I’ve heard perpetuated in sermons in my entire life. Are there a few verses that talk about doing that? Sure. Are there times when it’s important to make a proverbial stand? Probably. Is that the most effective way to represent the love of Jesus? Absolutely not. How about just putting your arm around someone and trying to understand their plight. How about just accepting someone and stop trying to change their behavior. How about just listening to someone’s struggle instead of quoting the Bible at them. It’s not your job to change people or make them behave in ways that satisfy your interpretation of the Bible. It’s also not your job to decide who’s good soil or who’s bad soil. If people don’t like the verses that you’ve strung together to address a situation, that’s on you, not their heart. You’re probably not a bad person. Most Christians aren’t. They’re just terrible with people. They think that if they just quote the Bible at people, then they’ll come busting through the doors on Sundays. Newsflash. How you treat people is all that matters. If you are inept in being a listening, loving, caring, and kind person who is accepting of all types of people, then no one will care about your Scripture quoting. That’s why this post is so absolutely terrible. It doesn’t bring life. It brings judgment and condemnation. All the comments from supportive followers alienates people who are gay. It makes people who are gay and love God hate themselves and feel like they are alone. But most Christians don’t actually have any gay friends. They have no human face on this issue. They slap up stereotypical, Google-searched images of demonstrators from San Francisco and you all say, “yep, those gays are coming for our children and this country is going down the tubes!” Well here’s a human face. Michael. Read what he’s writing. Read it 3 times and just let go of your instincts to preach at him. Or quote scripture. Doodle in the sand or something, like Jesus did. And then quit condemning. That’s what the love of Christ is.

  17. Nathan

    Jonathan. Not my words, God’s Words! Hebrews 4:12. Should we not feel guilty about sin? David certainly did. Psalm 51:3. If by hate himself you mean reject his flesh, see Romans 8. Is humility suddenly not a virtue? I commend Michael for his humility and transparency. Matthew 5:3. One can stand up for the truth and have compassion or mercy at the same time. In fact, they work together. See Proverbs 3:3, 14:22, 16:6, 20:28. “(LOVE) does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth.” 1 Cor 13:6. Jesus taught the truth because of His compassion. Mark 6:34. If as Christians our aim is to be “Christ-like” shouldn’t we do the same? Ephesians 4:15. I am not condemning anyone, that is certainly beyond me.

    Michael. As I stated, your humility and transparency is admirable and greatly appreciated. It would be wonderful if more Christians were as upfront with their struggles and temptations. We could all help one another battle and conquer if this were the case. James 5:16. We all have a struggle. 2 Corinthians 4 has helped me get through struggles and reminds me that satan is working to blind me to the truth. What is truly important and valuable is not here, not seen and not temporary, but unseen and eternal. Looking at your previous posts, it sounds like you already know that. Keep fighting the good fight.

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